Citadel Community News Update 09/13/2009

[dunniteowl]

Well folks, it's that time again.

Here's the latest update for what passes for news in the Community.

I am placing the Vault Submissions First this week, because my experience is the last things read are the ones first on your mind and I have some important things to impart to you this week that I wish to stay in the front of your brain after reading this.

So: Here it is...

Citadel Community News Update 09/13/2009

New Submissions From the Vault

As always you can find them yourself here: New Entries

NWN2 GAMEWORLDS
Kingdom of Haven 2009 by Arkosis, Barfubaz, KEMO

ALFA NWN2 Persistent World by ALFA Public Relations

Balarand: Frontiers of the Horde Lands by Quilistan

MAPS of Gameworlds, and Alens opinion by Alen Swift

Abeir-Toril...Cradle of Life webpage found at swiftpwcvault.com by Alen Swift

Sundren by Saulus

World of Talernon - Age of Dragons by Dragonsbane777/ Maiyin / Ticladesign™


NWN2 COMMUNITY NEWS
Tales of Moonsea Update #16 by Sceer(ToM)


NWN2 IDEAS
Nwn2 cursors by djbeast


NWN2 OTHER
Xydek's PrC Pack by Xydek

Warmage Custom Base Class by Darkkender


NWN2 VISUAL EFFECTS
Remove Annoying Effects - Extension (Tortoise Shell) by Cyphre


NWN2 PREFABS: BLUEPRINTS
Eléments ruraux by Edryth

Camps de fortune by Edryth


NWN2 AREA PREFABS
Stone Haven by Alupinu

Wassau by J.E. McKellar


NWN2 PLUG-INS
Pittlers Recolored Horns by Pittlers

Ladydesire's Plugin pack by ladydesire


NWN2 SCRIPTS
Skill-based classes by Wintermist

Shadowdancer - Fix by Alterity

Enhanced LevelUp & Events Demo by 0100010

Spell Fixes compilation v3.42 by player1


NWN2 TOOLS
Ladydesire's Tool pack by ladydesire

nssclc - NSS Command-Line Compiler by Elf des coquillages


NWN2 INTERNATIONAL MODULES
Le Cristal de lien by Calister68

Der Fluch der Zwerge - Teil 2 by Gradus (Feline Fuelled Games)


NWN2 ENGLISH MODULES
Rebirth by Strange One

Hyborian Hack by John McA

Chronicles of Charnia - Lanterna by slowdive_fan

HMC 1 - Cimmerian Justice NWN2 v1.04 by MikeLM9215


NWN2 ORIGINAL HAKPAKS
Ladydesire's Classpack v1.06.5 by ladydesire

Kaedrin's PrC Pack v1.38.5 by Kaedrin


End of New Submissions

And In Other News...

Make Your Voice Heard:
Many of you who read this either spend the majority of your online time over at the Official NWN2 Forums, or are regulars here at the Citadel. Well, I have also expanded the News Update Linkage to the Official Atari: NWN2 Forums to extend the range of readers. The Atari Forums don't get nearly the NWN2 interest the Official Forums does, but there are people there who don't yet know about the Official Forums and may never hear of the Citadel in their wanderings. So, I expand the reach of the news.

Why? What can possibly come of that, with such a lower percentage of readers from there? What difference can that make?

All good questions. I believe that any extra readers of any sort from any direction is a good thing. If only one in 40 gets interested and increases their connection to the Community by it, then that, to me, is well worth the extra 4 minutes of time I have to expend on the Internet to make the reach that much wider.

It's a fact. The amount of readers is much lower than the amount of active participants. It's a LOT higher. As an example, the last Community News Update on this site has 208 views. The link I provide in the Official Forums has 789, or 4 times the reader views. So that means 1 in 4 people on the Official Forums clicks the link and reads the news (as far as I can tell that is.) Over at the Atari Forums, the last link has a total of 2,816 views, of which I have no idea how many are new, unique or particular since the last update as the updates take place in a single thread with Link Posts only added each week.

Still, if even only one or two folks come over from there, to me that's a reason to do it. This means that there's at least one more person out there that has a better idea of what's going on in the NWN2 Community.

The reason I have wandered over to the Atari Forums, more than any other, though, is I have a suspicion if any Atari Execs are expecting any sort of feedback in regards to games they publish, that's where they will be looking. Simply due to the general shortsightedness of people in general. If it's not right there in front of you, how do you see it?

Searching out and exploration of information is not a common trait amongst the population and I have to Induce that to include anyone in any position in any trade, profession, walk of life, education or background. Some will, most won't. So I place it right where it can be easily seen, clicked and found.

It's also why I tell you, the reader, to express your opinion, make your voice heard in Atari Forums as well as the Official NWN2 Forums. If you're all for another expansion and more Adventure Packs, then you have to say so in the areas where folks that make those decisions are the most likely to look. And that place is most likely here: Third expansion pack? Like I said, if I can get one more person to participate, that's a good thing. I implore, encourage and cajole you to participate and make your voice heard.


The Advent of NWN2 Multi-Player Has Crested:
As a reporter only, I would simply paste the links and credits to the New Vault Submissions and leave it at that. However, I am something less and more than a mere reporter. I am also passionate about this game. From a player perspective, I honestly am not all that passionate. Some of the mechanics leave me a bit put off. Only a bit, though.

As a modder and storyteller, I have yet to find anything else that even comes remotely close to the power of the toolset. And for those of you that think of the toolset as a mere 'toy' marketing tool, remember, (and I said this first): after all, after all the programming is done, the NWN2/OC is just another module made with the toolset.

The toolset, from my perspective, is the cornerstone of anything that comes after the OC. I don't care if you mod SP (Single Player) or MP (Multi-Player) or PWs (Persistent Worlds), you have to use that toolset. Sure, if not for the DM Client, there'd be no MP. By the same token, without the toolset the DM Client is functionally useless as far as all that goes.

That said, the new 1.23 patch and hotfix have made the use of PW play much, much easier. I cannot personally give you specifics as I have a marriage I value that prevents me from getting into PW/MP play. However, the initial word coming back from the trenches is that the new Autodownloader is making things very, very easy for players and admins alike to connect and get PW play to expand.

There are others out there resisting the move to the Autodownloader as they are using Audolo or Worldgate and have settled in to using those tools. There's nothing wrong with that as these tools were Community Created and helped to overcome the many hurdles of MP/PW use that, unfortunately, resulted from the Epic Fail of the game's initial release and subsequent patching to 1.23.

Still, there is a time to make changes. This is that time. The move to reduce the boundaries to entry that come with the 1.23 patch is something that will, ultimately, provide a greater benefit to the Community than other solutions. Why?

Because, it is a result of Audolo and Worldgate and the culmination of the Autodownloader in it's current form. It was developed by a Community Member (GrinningFool) and was based on those tools, PW operator feedback in some cases and a careful examination of the code provided by OEI. It does work, it works well and has a lot of functionality to it. These are all good reasons to adopt it wholesale and then provide more feedback and suggestions for improvement.

Because, it offers, in official content, to reduce the hassle, overhead and confusion that currently exists with other party solutions. Personally, I feel the sooner this becomes the de rigeur standard of use, the sooner the Community can advance the potential even further to the point where anyone in the PW scene couldn't imagine not using it.

It brings us together with a common tool. It is something that owes it's underpinnings to Audolo and Worldgate. It's available to all without extra effort once the patch level is made. These are all good reasons to adopt it.

Lastly, the best reason to adopt it, is that it will provide us, the Community, a single tool and platform from which to develop and improve. If Audolo and Worldgate both continue to offer greater functionality and support, then great they should still be around. IF they can do many things that cannot, ever, be done with the Official Autodownloader, then great, let's keep them.

However, if they can be integrated, conceptually, into the Official Autodownloader, wouldn't that actually be better for the Community that would use it? It's not about competition, it's about splitting resources and reducing cohesion of an entire Community sector. You may or may not agree and I respect your right to do so. However, in this case, wouldn't it be more productive for the Community to have all it's eggs in the same basket to allow for simpler use and integration of improved features as we go along?

I think so. I implore you all to consider and weigh the disadvantages as well as the advantages and then, discuss this openly. Let's at least talk about it from the perspective of what's in the overall best interest of the PW playing portion of the Community.

Other PW/MP News:

Lanterna MP:
Lanterna has recently been converted to MP and is looking for more players to playtest and review it. slowdive_fan is looking to recruit a few players to run sessions for these purposes. This is a work in progress and your support as an MP player will be crucial to improvement in the experience as a whole.

Look for posts in the Official NWN2 Forums regarding this. This is so new I am pretty sure that you'll have to watch out for it coming up. I suggested to slowdive_fan to post this in the MP forums and shout some links in Modules and the General Discussion. He also informed me that he has already posted on neverwinter connections, but has not yet recieved confirmation at this point. So keep your eyes open and be on the lookout for Lanterna MP.

Khalidine's Grinning Fool Is At It Again:
http://dev.khalidine.com/misc/creator.wmv
This is a small movie file for GF's Blueprint Finder and Creator tool. I don't know that much about it. This is also brand spanking new as news goes, I just got it off IRC and will be editing an updat to this news item when I can get more detailed input from GF.


A Problem With A Community Based Solution:
Come on, admit it, you all like Community Created Custom Content, right? Of course you do. What's the first person or first group you think of when someone says, "Wow, this is amazing Custom Content!"

johnnyree of BouncyRock Entertainment? Sure.

Hellfire and Baron of Robinson Work Shop? Definitely.

Well both of those premiere sites are in the news this week for reasons other than the latest introduction of CC.

BouncyRock:
went down earlier this week and the server site indicated it was a payment issue. All the information I have been able to recieve so far is that this was an technical oversight and that the site should have already been up. I hope that Monday's dawning will see this site back up. In the meantime, if there's anyone out there with more information regarding when BouncyRock (one of my favorites, btw) will come back online, please respond to this Community News Update and inform us all.

Robinson Work Shop:
Now before I tell you what's up, a little preamble is required. RWS is, to my view, probably the single most premiere site for CC out in the Community. Tilesets, textures, placeables, creatures, all have been produced by the RWS team. There are some really cool things in production right now at RWS. There are dogs, the T-Rex, a thing called a Cind (which I don't know what that is, so please, anyone, enlighten me) and one of my favorite extinct creatures, the Smilodon (Saber Tooth Cat.)

Unfortunately, it has come to my attention that the modeler known as Hellfire has had a small issue come up that prevents any further modeling until this issue is corrected.

Hellfire's monitor has died. Currently, he, like many of us today in this economy and job market, doesn't have the ability to spare cash for a monitor for at least another 2 months (was the word I got.)

Oddly, I got this information from no less than 3 independant sources within two hours of this coming up. Even more oddly (or not depending on how you view the world) Hellfire didn't tell me this. In fact, I had to browbeat Hellfire on IRC about it before he'd admit it. He was, understandably, a bit embarrassed about the situation. Few people care to admit they require assistance in situations like this.

However, I have been in the down and out situation a number of times in my life and I have realized that there are really a lot of generous and helpful people out there in the world. Once, I lived out of a backpack and was homeless for about 8 months. If it weren't for the kindness and generosity not only of friends, but of complete and total strangers, I would not have made it out of that mess. So I know, from personal experience that there are folks out there who will help.

So, I am asking you, the Community, to help out a great modeler and a significant contributor to the artistic abilities of many a PW and SP module. Go to the RWS website here: Robinsonworkshop.com and click on the paypal donation button to make a donation for a new monitor to get him back up and running.

I know, it's a bit weird to be passing the hat for someone in the Community for a monitor. I recognize that there are probably more of you in mine and Hellfire's position of not having spare cash to donate or spend than not. If I had the money, I'd just dump it in his lap without so much as a hesitation to open my wallet. I can't and I know that many out there cannot as well.

So to those of you who can, consider putting up a few dollars here and there from amongst those who have it, and donate to the cause of getting Hellfire back up and modeling. You're not really doing it for Hellfire, you're doing it for the modeling content he creates and puts out there for the Community. Think of it as tossing in a few coins into the saxophone, guitar or electric piano case of one of those guys playing music on the streetcorner. It's just a way of saying, "I appreciate what you're doing, thanks for making my life a bit richer."

I know that there are some really great people out there in our Community, after all, look at all the cool Custom Content that is being placed out there for free to everyone in the Community. Now, here's a chance to give a tiny bit back to one of those CC makers out there. And for no other reason than you're going to help a guy out to keep making more of the same for the rest of us.

And that, too, is a noble way of supporting your Community. And I would like to point out that Hellfire did not make this request. I recieved 3 separate PMs and an email, each from different members of the Community asking me the same thing: Is there any way we can find a way to get the Community to donate for a new Monitor for Hellfire of RWS? I think there is and I think this is it. I know you're out there and we look to you to help solve this issue.

Other Community Members In the News:

ladydesire is posting for comments and suggestions on fixing the Warlock here: Upcoming Warlock changes from ladydesire and if you have points of view on what should be done, this is your opportunity to explain your position and see if something can be done.

ciViLiZed just posted this, this week, How to recompile a plugin which is a basic (*and simple, really) method for recompiling plug-ins. So if you have the tools and cannot wait, you should be able to self update all the plug-ins you like most before they come out. Of course, I honestly recommend you give the Plug-in authors a chance to recompile their plug-ins before you go off on your own.

Amadrammelec is offering a: Preview: Tome of Battle and invites your views, suggestions and comments on how things are looking. I know that Amadrammelec has been working on this project since around February of this year or earlier (have to check my memory) and deserves your attention if you're interested at all in anything relating to the Tome of Battle.

And that, my friends, is about all that's worth reporting as news in the Community this week. So, here comes another Opinion Piece by yours truly.

Opinion Piece: Is Your Education Worth It?

Oh wait, don't get all freaked out! This is not your formal education, it's your experience and learning in NWN2 I'm talking about, here.

When I first got the game, I was pretty excited. I knew it was going to be different from NWN in many ways, while at the same time, I still hoped that it would deliver a relatively similar gaming experience. So, I opened up the box, pulled out the game manual (spare though it was) and read through it.

Later, after I got home, I placed the game manual on the table in front of me and pulled out the disc and inserted it into my drive. I let the installation procedure do it's thing and pushed all the appropriate buttons and entering all the proper keycodes, etc. and sooner, rather than later, my game awaited.

And from there, my education in NWN2 began. I learned to get used to the idea that while I could run in puppet mode (even then) and control everything myself in battle, pausing repeatedly. I also learned to get used to the idea that one of the first things I had to watch for was Khelgar taking off ahead of me as Neeshka was sneaking up to disarm and recover a trap.

The first sign of a battle awaiting me would be Khelgar running off, Chaotic Stoopid, to engage enemies I couldn't even see on my screen. Another issue I learned to use as spotting the first signs of impending doom, Doom, DOOM would be Jhaeve casting a spell and then running right behind Khelgar, knowing that no more magic would be cast by her. She was going to use that damn staff until it killed her.

And why not? After all, as long as someone lived through the battle (or even ran away) they'd simply pop back up with one HP and ask to be healed. Who could resist mixing it up knowing you're unkillable? However, it really did throw off one's balance when it came to plannning a battle and only having the sudden running off of two of your main companions, without so much as a "There they are!" shouted to indicate there was one to plan for in the first place.

After a while, though you start learning your own personal tricks to keep things from spinning helplessly out of control. A quick mouse click and a pause press on the spacebar and voila! you've gotten Khelgar to stop before springing the ambush of the enemy. Another click and another press of the spacebar and now Jhaeve was casting buffing spells instead of throwing out a Stinking Cloud from too far away and then running through it (half the time coming under it's effects -- sheesh.)

Then there was the whole figuring out which conversation node was really the one you wanted. And coming to understand the difference in the responses you could make and how those affected, not the story line, but the chances you had for advancement.

As a player, you got a lot of education quickly. Of course, my experience in school tells me that, there was a reason there were so many voiced complaints on the forums during that intial period of time. There were at least as many "students" of NWN2 that mimicked the students in my classes over the years.

The thing about that is that a larger percentage of folks in school were the sort that instead of really trying to figure this stuff out on their own, were more interested in figuring out how to get someone else to answer their questions. Or, in some ways, doing their level best to figure out what answers the "teacher" expected you to give and then do that.

Now there's nothing really wrong with that. In fact, it's hard to argue that the majority has it all wrong in the first place. And so, for lack of a better analogy, education in NWN2 had a lot of people looking for "Crib's Notes" on how to get through sections of the game. And when I was in college, while I never personally used Crib's Notes, they sold like hotcakes at the Bookstore. So it's a fact they supply a demand and a need for a large sector of those seeking educational acceptability.

Then, there's the toolset side of things. Wow. You talk about an education! I opened up the toolset 4 times before I figured out how to actually start a module area and see it come up in the view window. No, seriously, I felt about as ignorant as they come. And it was at this time I had already gotten to a point with NWN where I felt pretty confident in my ability to figure things out.

NWN was like grade school compared to the first semester of NWN2 college. You remember in grade school how the Revolution was all about the tyranny of Britain (if you're a US student, sorry, that's the experience I have) against the Colonists and how it was all about Give me Liberty or Give me Death? And then, when you get to college, you start reading about how the moneyed interests in the Colonies were chafing at the import tariffs that England imposed on their raw goods and how they had to pay really high tariffs on manufactured items coming from England. You also get to find out the slightly higher majority of Colonists who didn't want trouble with England and were more interested in maintaining their livlihoods, income and status. You find out about how many other Colonists were called Tories, which meant that, come hell or high water, they were English Citizens and the very thought of rebellion was anathema.

This is like the education you get in the toolset. You start off thinking, this shouldn't be that complicated. You learn after a few major upheavals in saving to turn off the Autosave feature. Then you learn that using Directory Mode can save you some time, frustration and reduce your corruption potential. Not your personal corruption, your module corruption factor.

Then you move on to the next class. You find out the Creature Wizard not only does not work, it's like a teacher you can never, ever satisfy. No matter what you try, you're going to get it wrong. Wizard my butt, that thing's a freaking curmudgeon, for crying out loud. It's broken and still has not been fixed.

You live, you learn. You love, you learn. You lose, you lear~~n.

Yeah, if you haven't lost a save here or there, you really haven't used the toolset. If you haven't struggled with the initial trauma of loading plug-ins, only to have them invalidated at the next patch, you haven't really struggled with the toolset. If you haven't built an area and, somewhere around over halfway through decided that now you know better than when you started, so you start over again -- and again, then you haven't really scaled that Exterior Hill known as the Terrain Tools tab.

However. Like any good education. The time spent learning the things that make it work well are well worth the time invested. And the curve you have experienced in the first hundred hours are honed and skilled so that the next hundred hours are probably 5 times more productive overall. And when you learn new tricks, you find that you don't have to undo all that work anymore, you can merge it into the work you've already done.

And don't forget another very important aspect of changing from grade school to college in your NWN2 education. In grade school, you get recess and playtime up to a certain point. In college, this once school recognized function is now yours to do with as you will and the idea of having a party (noun) has become the verb (party.) Not enough of that and you'll burn out. Too much of that and you'll flunk. It's your choice and your responsibility to balance that out for yourself.

And this is an important lesson in NWN2 as it is in college. You have to learn to discipline yourself, direct yourself and entertain yourself. If you are driven to produce, you'll find a way. If you are driven to distraction, you'll learn very little that's truly useful, even if you can do quite a few things. If you are not driven by anything other than learning more, you'll learn a lot about the toolset and you'll have an arsenal of tools at your disposal that you may or may not do anything useful with.

None of these paths are the wrong path. They are part and parcel of any one's education in anything. What you put into it, you can't have taken away. What you do with it is entirely up to you. What others think of what you do with it is something you may or may not have to deal with, but the way you deal with it is as important as what you have learned to do with the toolset and how the output from it is presented.

I like to think of my time in the toolset as creative play. I think I must have probably 500 hours plus using it and I have not made a single complete story module yet. I have learned a lot and I have enjoyed myself immensely. And that mirrors my college level of education. I took the classes that interested me and I did well in them. No-one can take that away from me. And I don't have to hammer what it was I learned over anyone's head and say, "Look what I accomplished."

I could, on the other hand, add to the common pool of knowledge and information out there and am doing just that. I am no modeler. I am no scripter. Heck, I am not sure what sort of storyteller I might actually be in regards to using the toolset. What I do know, though, is that I am willing to offer my experience to any who asks me and will do my best to answer any questions or provide any solutions I have for others who ask.

It is my sincere hope that those of you with the skills and ability to do so, continue to produce modules, provide tools, plug-ins, and custom content of whatever sort you're able to do. It is my hope that as this game matures beyond official support into Community Support (which I hope is more than two years away...) that the tools we have at our disposal will only get more robust and easier, on the whole, to use.

We will learn, I am sure, that there are better ways to do things as we go further into the NWN2 curve. We will learn, also, that some of the things we think are the best way to do things, might not be so in light of someone else's "Eureka" moment.

In the meantime, school's getting started again (real school) and it's time to choose how much of NWN2 is going to be part of your curriculum. No-one can answer this question for you other than you. In light of all that you've done and all you've learned, do you think your NWN2 education is/was worth what you've put into it at this point in time?

School's always in session with NWN2, whether from a gamer, toolset user, custom content creator perspective. Anyone here carrying a full schedule?

As always, my Opinion Piece is a creation wholly my own. Any inaccuracies, mistakes, errors or points of view are purely my own and are put out there for no other reason than to poke, prod and propel you, dear reader, to go further and and reach higher.

Thanks to all of you who share NWN2 in whatever way,

Read. Explore. Question. Know.

best regards,
dunniteowl

[Drammel]

Actually, I've been working on the Tome of Battle since January second, but hey that actually ties in with your opinion piece. I had zero scripting experience back then except a small foray into making a module for NWN1 that I gave up on shortly thereafter. When I started this project I thought it would take two months, maybe three tops. Oh how silly I was back then ...

I suppose I really shouldn't have tried learning xml at the same time as nwscript. I remember my brain still hurting late at night trying to get the two to mesh together. But, hey I plugged away at it for a month and managed to figure out a way to get a custom spellbook and swift actions running and that gave me a thirst for more. It felt gooooood.

Next came rebuilding the combat engine, which was a whole new ballgame what with learning how spell and feat scripts interact with the engine. I spent a lot of time studying Kaedrin's and ladydesire's scripts until I could figure out what went where and why. This led to the next month of study which was all about learning how to use animations and visual effects. That also was a good feeling, knowing how. By then I could do some really fancy stuff. I could weave all of what I knew into stuff that hadn't been done before, and improbably, impossibly, it worked. It worked with what little I know.

The school of NWN2 never seems to run out of classes. There always seems to be something that ties into something else. You can start with a simple little script to teleport a player and end up writing a function to find line of effect. There's always more, the question is how deep you're willing to go. Personally, I draw the line at AI scripting. It baffles me, and if I attempt to learn it I know that I'll have to delay the Tome of Battle yet again, while I learn something else new and exciting.

Okay, I think that's enough rambling for the moment .

[Venture]

I like the Autodownloader, but wish one of the wish patches didn't break WorldGate. Kudos to Grinning Fool for a great tool for the community, but he built it from the perspective of a persistent world administrator. It doesn't really serve the needs of traditional D&D style games for which the NWN franchise was initially designed (a DM and small group of players). I run a weekly campaign for the same 6 players each week, so my game server only goes up once a week. The ADL only works when the game server is up. With WorldGate, I was able to post my update a few days before the game, and the players could run WorldGate and get it in advance.

Also, I am building and editing my module every week, adding, dropping, and tweaking areas. WorldGate made it a simple process to upload these changes, and clean up unneeded files, with a few clicks. The ADL doesn't serve me well for this.

Don't get me wrong - Grinning Fool has made an AWESOME tool (I've used it, and it is extremely professional and slick), and the community is in debt to him for taking it on. Its just that one tool doesn't fit all needs. I'm hoping that perhaps the ADL can be modified over time, to include a tool to allow updates when a game server is offline. This should be possible, since the only thing the game server does is point to the location of the files.

[pain]

Nothing is stopping your using worldgate, not sure why you think that, but some worlds are still using it.

This is in addition to the ways we used to use, so it cannot make things worse for you. Also if you do the content right, multiple haks for example, your players should be able to download in a few minutes since most things don't change even week to week.

[dunniteowl]

This is the very first I have seen or heard of any patch or the new Autodownloader 'breaking' either Worldgate or Audolo. Now that's not saying a whole lot as I am not too deeply involved (which is to say, scratching the surface) with MP/PW action in NWN2.

Still, if there is an issue, you should report that on the Official Forums, and make sure there is further concurrence. I get that you're talking about DM/MP play. And I think I see your reasoning. That said, I am not sure that the Autodownloader couldn't do what you seek to have it do. I believe in this case, it may be a situation of preparation before hand.

Then again, the DM Client should be all you require for your type of MP/DM session with any new files handed out prior to play in the first case. It seems to me that if you're using Worldgate for that, then the properties between it and the Autodownloader should be examined and seen if the ADL can be adapted to incorporate it, or that Worldgate can be adapted to run alongside it.

All the programs like this, Audolo, Worldgate and the ADL were all created specifically to help the process of PW play, not necessarily MP/DM sessions, so if there's an issue there, it may simply be one of preparation or lack of similar function due to time. You should take the time to get hold of Grinning Fool and explain your situation and issues (technical) with him and see if there's anything that can or requires being done. It is just possible that, with the ADL, there are features you are, as yet, unaware of how to use or even possibly how to access.

No matter what, though, talking with GF would go a long way to advancing the issue to solved status. I think that would be worth your time. Especially if the issue you describe really does affect MP/DM sessions the way you say.

best regards,
dunniteowl

[Venture]

Thanks for the replies. Worldgate still works the same from the player perspective, but the 1.23 patch broke the ability of the admin client to scan and upload only the changes. Now, it reuploads at least some unchanged content (at least for me, and the same problem is reported in the comments on the Worldgate page at the Vault). Also, I can't remember where I saw it, but I read somewhere that pwc files are handled slightly differently since the 1.23 patch, which may be part of the problem.

My campaign, which has been running since May of 2007, is coincidentally winding down in the next 1-2 weeks, so it isn't a huge deal to me. I will try to find time to make my suggestions to GF, though, as actually an autodownloader is MORE important in a small campaign, as all of the players' actions from week to week are built into the module, so there are frequent changes and additions (even to the pwc/walkmesh). As a result, we like tools that allow incremental updates, as opposed to downloading the whole ball of wax each week.

Thanks again for the input.

[vendalus]

Thanks for posting dunniteowl. A good read! Makes me yearn to get past all this pesky day-job work that has been keeping me from contributing lately.

[pain]

Originally Posted by Venture

Thanks for the replies. Worldgate still works the same from the player perspective, but the 1.23 patch broke the ability of the admin client to scan and upload only the changes. Now, it reuploads at least some unchanged content (at least for me, and the same problem is reported in the comments on the Worldgate page at the Vault). Also, I can't remember where I saw it, but I read somewhere that pwc files are handled slightly differently since the 1.23 patch, which may be part of the problem.

My campaign, which has been running since May of 2007, is coincidentally winding down in the next 1-2 weeks, so it isn't a huge deal to me. I will try to find time to make my suggestions to GF, though, as actually an autodownloader is MORE important in a small campaign, as all of the players' actions from week to week are built into the module, so there are frequent changes and additions (even to the pwc/walkmesh). As a result, we like tools that allow incremental updates, as opposed to downloading the whole ball of wax each week.

Thanks again for the input.

You do realize you don't need the game to run worldgate, just the dll, and it does not have to be the current version dll, i am pretty sure it is in another folder when you use it ( which would make the update not affect it at all ). The file formats of a hak it works with as far as i can tell have never changed, and PWC's still exist. It's not part of NWN2, it's a third party stand alone program which there are quite a few worlds still using.

Not sure what is going on exactly from what you describe, but the update should not have affected it at all, i still use tools which were basically made for NWN1 even.

This makes me think that the issues you are having are coincidental, since logically i don't see anything that came with the new version that could be causing an issue for you.

You might also make sure you have the latest version of worldgate, there was an issue with servers being limited in number of files per folder which caused things to redownload everything after you hit a certain number of files.

Now as for small changes. Unlike worldgate, the new downloader will do a fine job with area changes since each area is it's own file which is exactly how world gate worked before. ( it had those files in a single pwc, now they are loose as separate files ) As for the hak content, figure out what is changing, most of it is not going to change, and put it in it's own hak. The only difference between the new system and the world gate is it has to upload download entire haks, it will do the areas exactly the same. The solution for the hak's is to have more than one hak which actually is an improvement in some cases. The thing that will NOT work, is having a single massive hak, nor will directly putting things in override but they now work from haks. Remember there is some overhead on each file sent back and forth, and transmitting a lot of very small files like world gate does is not as efficient as sending files that are 5-25 megs in size on average.

But seeing as how you want them to run it prior, between games, world gate is great at that. I would get world gate into it's own folder, get an older version of the dll in there with it. If it's redownloading things too often it's likely because they are actually changing them as it does a CRC check. If it's downloading everything, even if you just downloaded it, i'd look at the version of world gate you have, and make sure it's got it's own dll in it's folder so that is not getting updated. I'd also read the vault page for things similar to your issue. It's main issue is that the author no longer is developing it, but i don't see how that is an issue since it works and always will unless they change the hak format which i don't ever see happening.

( How big a game you are running is immaterial, it's technically the same problems, and nothing you describe is anything i am unfamiliar with, since i used both world gate and the downloader. )