Halls of Hamhock beta test

[Dorateen]

Last week, I started a closed beta test for an upcoming module "The Halls of Hamhock". I have already received some preliminary feedback, this thread is for testers to continue the discussion.

Harumph!

[Lariam]

Weclome to the Weave forums and good luck with the testing, Dorateen!

[Phoenixus]

Hey there Dorateen,

Glad you found it.

I want to go over some general things I noticed currently in your module.

I liked your entry cutscene as well as the idea of graying out the scene to give the background. This is a very good portion, but it moves a little too quickly. You may consider adding one more block of text to this before moving to the shot of the King with the demon behind him.

The entry point where the game starts with the conversation with the man in black should probably happen quicker. To do this use a speaktrigger right on the waypoint where the player arrives it will make a good entry conversation rather than having the PC walk up to him.

This conversation could also use a bit of smoothing up. It's good, but it makes assumptions on the part of the reader that they generally don't trust a man in black. It kind of comes off a little cliche. Outside that, the man is personable and likeable and is a good NPC.

Keep in mind my game didn't work the way it was intended, When I retextured your Dwarven Village are I accidently blocked off the Inn portion, so I was unable to get in. I fixed this but had already taken a first run through.

I then went to the Mayor's house, the conversation again, was with a personality that actually showed. He seems to be a real person behind the conversation and you've done well at creating him. But your player options for what to ask could use a little more fleshing out and need perhaps an added choice or two.

One thing I noticed up to that point... your indoor area was way too large for what was needed. Granted it's supposed to be a larger house, but in your case you can probably handle the entire thing in a much smaller area. On a side note, this was a common mistake you made in your module. There were several areas that needed a little compaction.

Your Dwarven Village was one of them. I compacted some of the unneeded space and brought it closer togather. I'll have more on that later.

Right now we are slammed busy at work and it took me near an hour just to write this much. I'll post more as we go along hopefully when I get more time.

Keep in mind this is not an indictment of your module. Once you get into this it is surprisingly good. But it definitely needs a little polish.

[Dorateen]

Thank you Lariam for the welcome, and of course Phoenixus for the much-needed feedback!

What do they call that... the tardis effect? Yeah, some of these interors started out bigger than I actually needed them. I think (hope) that this improved as I continued building. I'll be interested in your thoughts and suggestions as you progressed further.

[Phoenixus]

Ok while I have a little more time...

Keep in mind my first playthrough I was unable to get into the Inn so I attempted the mountain directly. I got to the guards at the top, and they stopped me... but only for the duration of the conversation.

Once the conversation finished I could walk right by them because I had already activated the trigger.

I didn't check the scripting for the speaktrigger, but make sure it's set to multi-use and not a Do Once kind of thing. Also... put a waypoint in back behind the trigger, and jump the PC back there during the first node of the conversation so he will be forced to trigger that again until the time when the conversation changes will allow him to pass. This will keep the player from accidently bypassing it before it's time.

[Phoenixus]

Ok...

Once inside the Mountain was where I noticed an overly large area with too much space.

I see what you are trying to accomplish with this area, but it doesn't work the way you are thinking.

I reccomend swapping the tilesets back for the cavern Tilesets and using different building structures for this initial level that or use the Dwarven Halls hak pack from RS Studios. I can help if you want to do this. It will do wonders for your Dwarven Hall.

That said...

The initial area was too sizable and too bare for what you wanted to do with it. You will need to use things like the fallen pillars as well as solid pillars. Also, use the Tower Building structures. to create the internal things you wanted to create. It will be much more fitting. As it stands the area is too open.

Keep in mind, combat wise I didn't know what the module level for characters was so I jumped in with an 8th level character and didn't have any henchmen. But the encounters were surprisingly well balanced against a single 8th level character, so I suspect a party of 3-4 characters of level 4-5 would probably find it a good challenge. That said I was solo so I can't put money on that.

More as I get time.

[vendalus]

Is this up on the ftp site for other builders to grab or is there another way to get it?

[Phoenixus]

Ok now that I have a little more time...

Once I got inside and was ambushed by the Bugbears, I beat them though unbuffed (and without spells as I hadn't rested and selected them... admittedly... my fault) as I wasn't expecting what I ran into. I was playing an Eldritch Knight character type (also DMG guidelines character).

Good call on making the dwarf near the temple walk up immediately after the fight to give you the situation, that was a very good step.

It brought me right to the Temple to the left which was a safe rest zone and allowed me to immediately replenish and memorize for the other encounters.

The Priest was a decent character, but sometimes your player dialogue options make too many assumptions. I like the choice of treating him a bit greedy considering the circumstances, but you should also include a couple more dialogue options for different viewpoints. Like... some guys wanting to say... "yeah I got to hand it too you that's quite the racket, I'll have to keep that in mind"... or something of that nature patting him on the back.

The fights for clearing out the Watchtowers were very good. The Bugbear archers with the Gargoyle leader were good combat designs. But again because the area is so barren, yet your tileset selection is a stonebrick kind, it doesn't fit very well and you may want to adjust it. You want to ideally make it seem like the enemies are lurking around any corner where you can't see them or multiple cover types where you can't see around the corner and don't know which corner they are lurking under.

Size wise it's actually ok if it had more cover or hidden areas, then you can throw in a couple more encounters to seem like the party is being jumped constantly to fight for their lives.

Also, adjust the lighting to be darker, then use placed voilet or greenish to bluish lights to give it a kind of eerie underdark kind of feel in the main entry layer. This will add to the sense or feeling of danger the player should experience on first entry.

The Watchtower clearing quest in itself though is a good idea, and pretty well thought out considering. The use of triggers to close or advance each part of the quest was very good. That said... the other Dwarven held areas on that level need more Dwarves so it seems like a smallish force is there holding those areas. Generally you only had 2-4 Dwarves, it should probably be around 7-8 in each probably behind a hastily erected stonework barrier for defense.

There was a bug though in the closing of the quest for the Watchtowers. The Dwarvf guarding the area to the city level will allow you to clear the quest and go up, but... if you talk to him again he repeats the "You haven't cleared this area yet" even though you already have.

Ok on the City area levels, good Idea generally, but I can't help but feel this place seriously needs the Dwarven Halls Hak Pack, it's just made for it. Keep the buildings to Stonework kinds and mind the idea behind Dwarven architecture, you may wish to swap out some of the buildings with things more fitting. Also, for your city area you're going to want to add Map points. While in a Forest or outdoor area these can detract from the immersian of being lost, in a City though, you could ask a passerby for directions so Map Points fit well.

Also add more Soldiers walking the streets to give it life. While there will surely be Dwarven women and children about, in an atmosphere of war it will be the Stout Dwarven warriors moving to and from where they are going.

One area I really thought was good was the King's Throne Room. You may want to tint the tileset a bit though as Bright White doesn't fit as well, but the area was a really good design.

Unfortunately the Shadow Tileset with all of those holes in it just doesn't look very good, even though I can see what you were shooting for and you made the most of it with your imagination which was pretty good considering the caliber of what you were working with. But alas, the tilesets themselves just let you down. Perhaps there are places you can Substitute the Sunken Ruins Tileset to give the same multi-tiered look.

One thing I thought especially showed very well was the Thanes quest. This was so Dwarven it practically exuded it. I really felt this was a seriously immersing portion of the main quest and it felt like the Story kicked into gear there.

The Lower levels...

Have I said how much this just screams for the Dwarven Halls tileset, I have to give you credit, you did design a very good and complex level with what you had, and the Illusionary boulders were a nice touch. Also I liked the Triggers that Intro'd a lot of the fights. The Ogre battle in the beginning kick started things right off and made sense as some of the strongest would be the ones fighting near the front.

Again though, adjust your lighting, if you need some lighting settings, let me know I can send you the ERF and you can import them, I can also send you light placables to see the different colors of placed lights.

One problem on the other side, The main encounter with the Priests doing the ritual, the trigger only activated from one side. I came at it from the wrong side and bypassed the trigger but still triggered it after they were dead and I was exiting the other side of the room. This Trigger should probably be re-drawn to take up the entire room and both side of the entry.

THe Gargoyle boss mob on that side had another cutscene intro which again was very good. And it played out very nicely if you watched it through... one problem... when the "Assassins" come, the people fighting against him have no conversation, so when they kill him... nothing happens... and you're left wondering why the Ogres never killed you too if it's an internal fight.

I'm not sure what you were trying to accomplish here as I suspect it didnt play out the way you had planned.

Well I grabbed the book from the book burner (nice touch)... and went back up and gave the second Thane the book and admittedly that one played out really well. Again perhaps more conversation options... but that one felt good.

Then you offer to bring the player up to the King's Chamber to meet with the Thanes... again excellent. Course... that is where your game stopping bug hit me that you are aware of.

As I look back on this run through...

I am reminded of how much this was a surprisingly good module but just needs a lot of polish. I am actually pretty impressed because your story is a good one as is the attitude behind it. This will be a prety good Dwarf related mod when it's shined up.

[Phoenixus]

Ok Dorateen,
I promised you a little bit of how I re-textured your Dwarven Village so you could potentially pick some things up. Now keep in mind, I only gave it a once over and didn't get too detailed.

But here's how I did what I did...

First lets take your Village as you had done it...

You basically have a flat single textured area that looks very repetetive. Well your mountain in the background uses several textures, and the idea of a foothills village like this is to blend it into the mountain behind it...


So... I removed and replaced your textures... to create a rocky kind of hilly land... I used the height mapper to make small bumps with a medium raise brush... and then painted over them with one of the rocky textures from your mountain like so...



I then took the Grass_37 Texture and went over the top of them to segment them like this...

Normally I would have started with a 65% pressure on the brush but I was doing a quick re-texture for you so I went directly to 80% to really bring out the normal mapping on the texture.


I then used the small raise brush at 20% and raised the little parts on the mound up a little ways like this...

[Phoenixus]

Then in the middle areas to break up the texture of the Grass_37 I used the Mud_02 texture to dot little areas for the walkway. You'll notice the darker spots in the middle of the grass area which breaks up the monotony of a single texture by changing it up... it gives it a kind of "Bog" look.




I also got rid of all that extra space by the Stables by moving all those buildings and placables up next to the road and then moving your Stockade wall up behind them... And then height locked your wall, and raised the dirt around the sides of the wall to make it look like the dirt was pushed up to reinforce the wall.


The Final picture when it was done is this... which is a drastic change compared to what you had and blends the village gradually into the mountain making a nice smooth change of terrain...